H-1Bs See Opportunity to Avoid SS Taxes

Date: Sunday, December 22, 2002 6:02 PM

H-1B and JOB DESTRUCTION NEWSLETTER

www.ZaZona.com

The Immigrants Support Network, a militant support group of H-1Bs, has been
asking for a totalization agreement with India for quite some time. That is
because totalization will allow Indian H-1Bs to avoid paying Social Security
taxes. Many H-1Bs, including Indians, can avoid SS taxes as described in
previous newsletters on totalization and taxes.

Two ISN newsletters are reproduced below. They are very excited that the
Bush administration wants to merge our Social Security system with Mexico.
The ISN views this as a huge opportunity to avoid paying SS. They may even
hope that they can get SS benefits when they move back to India.

Murali Krishna Devarakonda brags that his ISN members changed the poll
results but there were probably far more Mexican special interests that
influenced the results.

12/20/2002
[isn-announce] FLASH! CNN Poll- Vote YES on for Social Security benefits for
Legal Immigrants

Dear ISN-Announce Subscriber,

Please visit the following URL on CNN.com *** IMMEDIATELY ***
http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/moneyline/

and Vote YES in the poll titled:
"Should the United States give Social Security benefits to legal, but
non-citizen, immigrants?"
Currently, the number of 'No' Votes are leading the 'Yes' votes by a 3-to-1
margin!

Your vote will be crucial in affecting public opinion.

Should the United States give Social Security benefits to legal, but
non-citizen, immigrants?
Yes 24% 364 votes
No 76% 1124 votes
Total: 1488 votes

Thank you,
Murali Krishna Devarakonda
Immigrants Support Network
www.ISN.org

12/22/2002
[isn-announce] CNN Poll: You made the difference!

Dear ISN-Announce Subscriber,

While the CNN Poll ("Should the United States give Social Security benefits
to legal, but non-citizen, immigrants?") was not a scientific poll, such
polls do have an impact on public opinion, and the government.

Goes to show the power of the email and the internet, the power of an
individual vote, and what a difference we can make by mobilizing our forces
in a timely manner to speak up on issues that matter the most to us.

By mobilizing over a thousand votes in about 90 minutes, we turned the tide
in the CNN Poll from 76%-against to 54%-in-favor. Our supporters cast 1026
of the 1106- a whopping 92.8% of the votes cast after an being down 1 to 3
until then!

See for yourself:

http://www.isn.org/news/20021220181335.html

Regards,
Murali Krishna Devarakonda
Immigrants Support Network
www.ISN.org

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=30090

Thursday, December 19, 2002

Mexicans to collect
U.S. Social Security?
Talks underway to add some residents south of border to rolls

Posted: December 19, 2002
5:00 p.m. Eastern

By Jon Dougherty
© 2002 WorldNetDaily.com

The United States and Mexico are in preliminary talks to merge both
countries' Social Security systems under a plan that would add tens of
thousands of residents south of the border to the rolls and cost American
taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars annually.

Though officials describe the talks so far as "informal," the idea is being
pushed by Mexican President Vincente Fox as payback from President Bush for
failing to secure major new immigration reforms beneficial to Mexico City,
the Washington Post reported today.

Excerpts from a U.S. Social Security Administration memo dated this month
say the agreement "is expected to move forward at an accelerated pace," and
could be in place by next October.

Both governments are said to be supportive of the plan, though it is being
pushed by the Mexican government.

The pact is the latest and largest attempt by Washington and Mexico City to
ensure that people from one country working in another aren't taxed twice
for Social Security benefits. In the first year alone, the agreement is
expected to trigger 37,000 claims from Mexicans working in the U.S. legally
who paid Social Security taxes but haven't been able to claim their checks,
said the memo, prepared by Ted Girdner, the Social Security Administration's
assistant associate commissioner for international operations.

Within five years of implementation, the agreement could cost U.S. taxpayers
$750 million, though an independent estimate put the cost at around $1
billion. Currently, $372 billion in Social Security benefits are being paid
to 46.4 million recipients.

Mexican officials began pushing the Bush administration hard in October to
support the agreement.

"When the legalization talks began going nowhere, the Mexicans began
focusing on this," Maria Blanco, national senior counsel for the Mexican
American Legal Defense and Educational Fund, told the Post.

Arturo Sarukhan, a top Mexican foreign ministry official, said his
government has been lobbying the Bush administration hard after failing to
win favorable immigration reforms.

"How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time," he said.

He said the agreement would improve the daily lives of Mexican citizens,
many of whom are still trapped in poverty a decade after the North American
Free Trade Agreement promised prosperity to the nation's 103.4 million
people.

Critics, as well as some on the Bush administration economic team, worry
that adding more beneficiaries would burden an already ailing system, just
as American baby boomers begin to retire.

In the meantime, House Ways and Means Committee staff members are meeting
today with Social Security officials to hash out projected costs for such an
agreement.

"We are concerned about the sheer magnitude of the agreement," said a House
Republican aide who is an expert on Social Security.

Currently, around 94,000 beneficiaries living abroad have been brought into
the U.S. system under the auspices of about 20 international treaties. One
estimate said the number of Mexicans coming into the system under the plan
being considered number around 164,000 in the first five years.

Canada and South Korea are among some of the countries that already have a
similar agreement with the U.S.

White House spokeswoman Claire Buchan said the issue is being explored at
this time only on a "technical level" and that no decision to move forward
has been made.

In 1996, the U.S. passed a law stating that foreigners not legally residing
in the country could no longer claim benefits unless their home countries
were subject to a treaty.

Mexico says those beneficiaries, numbering around 13,000, were owed some $50
million in 1998.

Negotiators working on the plan say the U.S. will have to build a new
building in the embassy complex in Mexico City to handle the crush of claims
expected, sources said.

Steven A. Camarota, director of research at the Center for Immigration
Studies, says if Mexicans receive the $8,100 in benefits that Mexican-born
retirees in the U.S. currently get, the total expenditure for the program
will easily surpass $1 billion annually.

The cost, however, is of little consequence to supporters.

"How can [the U.S. government] say this is too costly? This is money these
workers paid into the Social Security system. This is their money," said
Blanco.

Jon E. Dougherty is a staff reporter and columnist for WorldNetDaily, and
author of the special report, "Election 2000: How the Military Vote Was
Suppressed."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A9342-2002Dec18.html

U.S. Social Security May Reach To Mexico

By Jonathan Weisman
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, December 19, 2002; Page A01

Pushed by the Mexican government, the Bush administration is working on a
Social Security accord that would put tens of thousands of Mexicans onto the
Social Security roster and send hundreds of millions of dollars in benefits
south of the border.

White House and Mexican government officials say discussions on an agreement
to align the Social Security systems of the two countries are informal and
preliminary. But excerpts from an internal Social Security Administration
memo obtained this month say the agreement "is expected to move forward at
an accelerated pace," with the support of both governments, and could be in
force by next October.

The pact would be the latest, but by far the largest, of a series of
treaties designed to ensure that people from one country working in another
aren't taxed by both nations' social security systems. In its first year,
the agreement is projected to trigger 37,000 new claims from Mexicans who
worked in the United States legally and paid Social Security taxes but have
been unable to claim their checks, according to a memo prepared by Ted
Girdner, the Social Security Administration's assistant associate
commissioner for international operations.

Extrapolating from U.S. and Mexican government statistics, the accord could
cost $720 million a year within five years of implementation. One
independent estimate put the total at $1 billion a year -- a large sum, but
a trifle compared with the $372 billion in Social Security benefits
currently being paid to 46.4 million recipients.

Mexican President Vicente Fox has been pushing President Bush to sign a
Social Security agreement with Mexico as something of a consolation prize to
make up for Bush's failure to pursue promised immigration reforms, according
to Latino lobbyists close to the Fox administration. Mexican officials began
pressing the White House hard at meetings that preceded the Asia-Pacific
Economic Cooperation forum in Los Cabos, Mexico, in October.

"When the legalization talks began going nowhere, the Mexicans began
focusing on this," said Maria Blanco, national senior counsel for the
Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund. "They really bore in at
Los Cabos."

Arturo Sarukhan, a top official in Mexico's foreign ministry, said that
after Mexico's failure to win a comprehensive package of immigration reforms
from Bush, it is lobbying in Washington for important incremental steps.
"How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time," he said.

The Social Security agreement, he said, is one of those less-sexy things
that Mexico has been pushing to deepen its relationship with the United
States and improve the day-to-day lives of Mexicans.

Just yesterday, Fox underscored the political pressure he is under
domestically to secure concessions from the United States when he journeyed
to the border city of Nuevo Laredo to call for an "urgent" immigration
accord to end discrimination against Mexican workers north of the border.

Concern is rising on Capitol Hill -- and even among some White House
economic aides -- that any agreement on Social Security could add a new
burden to the benefits system, just as the baby-boom generation is preparing
to retire. House Ways and Means Committee staff members are meeting today
with Social Security officials to hash out projected costs for such an
agreement.

"We are concerned about the sheer magnitude of the agreement," said a House
Republican aide who is an expert on Social Security. About 94,000
beneficiaries living abroad have been brought into the system by the 20
existing international agreements. A Mexican agreement alone could bring in
162,000 in the first five years.

White House spokeswoman Claire Buchan said the issue is being explored only
at a "technical level" at this point, and the administration has not yet
decided to move forward with formal negotiations. "A totalization agreement
with Mexico would have significant implications," she said.

Miguel Monterrubio, a spokesman for the Mexican Embassy, said several
meetings have taken place between the Social Security Administration and its
Mexican counterpart since November 2001, but he, too, called them informal.

The Social Security memo indicates that work may be further along than both
governments are saying. According to the memo, "the application workloads
generated by an agreement with Mexico will be much larger than those
resulting from any of the 20 existing agreements" with other countries.

In addition to the flurry of new claims, an additional 13,000 Mexicans
entitled to benefits but cut off by provisions in recent immigration laws
could also begin receiving their checks. In a 1996 immigration reform law,
Congress decreed that foreigners not legally residing in the United States
could no longer claim benefits, unless their home countries were subject to
a treaty. Those beneficiaries alone were owed nearly $50 million in 1998,
according to a Mexican government document.

The team of negotiators from the Social Security Administration and State
Department working on the agreement already anticipate that the U.S.
government will have to erect a new building in the embassy complex in
Mexico City just to deal with the crush, according to a source familiar with
the negotiations.

If the new beneficiaries in Mexico received payments roughly equal to the
average $8,100 benefit that Mexican-born retirees in the United States now
receive, the total would easily surpass $1 billion a year, said Steven A.
Camarota, director of research at the Center for Immigration Studies, a
nonpartisan research organization. And even that number could seriously
underestimate the number of Mexicans who would seek Social Security
benefits, if not qualify for them, he said.

Such talk has caused growing concern at the State Department and on Capitol
Hill. A memo from the State Department's assistant secretary for consular
affairs, Maura Harty, to Secretary of State Colin L. Powell even indicated
the White House National Economic Council has raised objections. As one
State Department official put it, "the staffing and budget implications
haven't been fully worked out, but we're thinking about it."

To the Mexican government and immigrant advocates, such concerns are beside
the point.

"How can [the U.S. government] say this is too costly?" Blanco asked. "This
is money these workers paid into the Social Security system. This is their
money."

The United States has been negotiating Social Security "totalization"
agreements with other governments since the late 1970s. They allow workers
to "totalize" the number of years they have worked in both countries to meet
the minimum years required to qualify for benefits in one of the systems.

Until now, the cost of such agreements has been relatively small, since they
have been almost exclusively with European countries. According to the
Social Security Administration, the annual cost of all 20 existing accords
equals about $183 million.

"All of the deals before this have been noncontroversial and low-cost," said
a House Republican expert on Social Security. "This could be dramatically
different in all kinds of ways."

The GOP aide said Mexican officials would also like benefits to be adjusted
upward for a legal Mexican worker who worked in the United States for some
time illegally and paid into the Social Security system using a false Social
Security number. Gabriela Lemus, director of policy and legislation for the
League of United Latin American Citizens, said as much as $21 billion in
Social Security payments have not been tracked to potential beneficiaries,
most likely because they were paid under a false Social Security number.

Correspondent Kevin Sullivan in Mexico City contributed to this report.

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