Pascrell vs. Johnson Debate

January 11, 2006 No. 1399

I THINK WE AGREE WITH THE CONGRESSMAN CONCEPTUALLY.
THE PROGRAM HAS SAFEGUARDS SUCH AS YOU HAVE TO
PAY H-1 WORKERS THE SAME WAGES AS U.S. WORKERS.

THIS LAW IS NOT BEING IMPLEMENTED. WE DON'T HAVE
ENOUGH RESOURCES IN THE LABOR DEPARTMENT TO DO
IT.

I DO WANT TO NOTE THAT THE DEPARTMENT OF LABOR RECENTLY
FINED A COMPANY OVER $2 MILLION FOR ALLEGED ABUSES
UNDER THE PROGRAM SO THERE IS ENFORCEMENT
AND THERE SHOULD BE ENFORCEMENT AGAINST EMPLOYERS WHO
ABUSE THE SYSTEM.

NO ONE'S GOING TO CONTEST -- WE HAVE A GROSS SHORTAGE OF
SCIENTISTS AND ENGINEERS IN THIS COUNTRY.

FOUR MILLION JOBS OVER THE PAST
TWO YEARS.
THE UNEMPLOYMENT RATE IS 4.9%.
DO WE HAVE ENOUGH WORKERS TO
MEET ALL OF BUSINESS'S NEEDS?

IMMIGRATION REFORM PROMISES
TO BE A HOT TOPIC ON CAPITOL
HILL THIS YEAR.
STRONG JOB GROWTH MAY INFLUENCE
THE DEBATE, PARTICULARLY OVER
THE NEED FOR ADDITIONAL FOREIGN
WORKERS.

JOINING US NOW TO ELECTRIC AT
BOTH SIDES OF THE ISSUE, RANDY
JOHNSON IS VICE PRESIDENT FOR
LABOR RELATIONS AT THE U.S.
CHAMBER OF COMMERCE IN
WASHINGTON AND REPRESENTATIVE
WILLIAM PASCRELL , NEW JERSEY
DEMOCRAT, WHO HAS INTRODUCED
IMMIGRATION REFORM LEGISLATION,
JOINING US FROM NEW YORK.
MR. PASCRELL , WE HAVE HAD
QUESTIONS ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT
BUSINESSES SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO
BRING IN ADDITIONAL WORKERS.
IT'S THE H-1 VISA PROGRAM.
AND BUSINESSES HAVE COMPLAINED
THAT THEY DON'T HAVE ENOUGH
PEOPLE TO FILL THE SPOTS.
HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THAT?

I THINK THAT NO ONE WANTS TO
DO AWAY WITH THE H-1-B PROGRAM,
BUT WE WANT TO MAKE SURE
AMERICANS GET THE FIRST CRACK AT
THESE JOBS AND THAT AMERICANS
ARE NOT TAKEN OFF THESE JOBS.
AND WE BRING IN PEOPLE FROM
OTHER COUNTRIES THAT WILL TAKE
THEIR POSITIONS.
IN ABOUT WHAT WE THINK ARE
HIGHLY TECHNICAL POSITIONS.
SO 65,000 SHOULD BE THE
THRESHOLD.

RANDY JOHNSON, CAN YOU FIND
ENOUGH WORKERS OR ARE AMERICANS
BEING PUT OUT OF WORK?

WELL, I MEAN, THE H-1-B
PROGRAM IS A NARROW SLICE OF THE
GENERAL PROBLEM OR ISSUE
SURROUNDING IMMIGRATION REFORM
BUT LET ME TALK ABOUT H-1-B,
FIRST AND I THINK WE AGREE WITH
THE CONGRESSMAN CONCEPTUALLY.
THE PROGRAM HAS SAFEGUARDS SUCH
AS YOU HAVE TO PAY H-1 WORKERS
THE SAME WAGES AS U.S. WORKERS.
THERE ARE $2,000 WORTH OF FEES
EMPLOYERS HAVE TO PAY BEFORE
USING THE PROGRAM.
IT COSTS ABOUT $5,000 TO USE
LAWYERS TOGET THROUGH -- TO GET
THROUGH THE PROGRAM SO THERE ARE
BUILT-IN INCENTIVES TO PREVENT
EMPLOYERS FROM GOING TO THE
PROGRAM UNLESS THEY TRULY FACE A
SHORTAGE OF U.S. WORKERS IN
THOSE CATEGORIES OF H-1-B'S.

I'D LIKE TO RESPOND TO WHAT
RANDEL JUST SAID BUT I DIDN'T
MEAN TO INTERRUPT YOU, RANDEL.

LET ME THANK YOU,
CONGRESSMAN, TOO, FOR YOUR
SUPPORT IN THE HOUSE ON THE
IMMIGRATION BILL WHICH WE
OPPOSED AS DID YOU.

I WANT TO GO BACK TO WHAT
RANDEL JUST SAID.
THIS LAW IS NOT BEING
IMPLEMENTED.
WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH RESOURCES
IN THE LABOR DEPARTMENT TO DO
IT.
THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THAT
THE MEEHANO REPORT OF THE
DECEMBER, THIS PAST MONTH,
INDICATES THAT H1B WORKERS ARE
BEING PAID LESS SO WAWE'RE DOING
IS GETTING CHEAPER LABOR FROM
OTHER COUNTRIES TO COME IN TO DO
THE PROFESSIONAL JOBS THAT
AMERICANS AND LEGAL IMMIGRANTS
HAVE BEEN TRAINED FOR AND HAVE
HAD THE GREASE FOR.
WE'RE NOT TRYING TO KEEP
IMMIGRANT WORKERS OUT OF THIS
COUNTRY.
WE WANT AMERICANS, HOWEVER, TO
BE TREATED FIRST AND FOREMOST
WHEN THEY APPLY FOR A JOB OR IF
THEY'RE ON A JOB.
THIS IS A VERY CRITICAL ISSUE.
IT MAY BE ONLY A SMALL SLICE BUT
IT REFLECTS THE BASIC RESENT
ENT.
WE SHOULD NOT HAVE RESENTMENT
AGAINST IMMIGRANTS BUT THIS IS
ONE OF THE PROGRAMS I THINK THAT
IS BUILDING RESENTMENT
PARTICULARLY WITH OUR HIGH
PROFESSIONAL WORKERS AND I THINK
THIS IS WRONG AND I'VE
INTRODUCED LEGISLATION TO STOP
THE VIOLATION OF THE LAW OF THE
UNITED STATES.

I DO WANT TO NOTE THAT THE
DEPARTMENT OF LABOR RECENTLY
FINED A COMPANY OVER $2 MILLION
FOR ALLEGED ABUSES UNDER THE
PROGRAM SO THERE IS ENFORCEMENT
AND THERE SHOULD BE ENFORCEMENT
AGAINST EMPLOYERS WHO ABUSE THE
SYSTEM.

ISSUE BUT THERE IS RESENTMENT AT
A TIME WHEN WE HAVE 4.9%
UNEMPLOYMENT.

RANDY JOHNSON, WHY DO WE NEED OR
WHAT WOULD IMMIGRATION REFORM
DO?
HOW DO WE TACKLE THIS.
PROBLEM?

THERE ARE VARIOUS BILLS IN
THE SENATE THAT LOOK AT THIS IN
A THREE-PRONGED FASHION WHICH WE
SUPPORT AND UNIONS SUPPORT.
LEGISLATION INTRODUCED BY
SENATOR MCCAIN AND SENATOR
KENNEDY, SUPPORTED BY THE
UNIONS, THAT WOULD PROVIDE LEGAL
STATUS FOR ABOUT THE 10 TO 11
MILLION UNDOCUMENTED WORKERS WHO
ARE ALREADY HERE BECAUSE WE NEED
TO BRING THEM OUT OF THE SHADOWS
SO THEY'RE NOT EXPLOITED AND
TEMPORARY WORKER PROGRAMS LIKE
THE H1B PROGRAM BUT DIFFERENT IN
DETAILS THAT COULD FLUCTUATE
WITH THE ECONOMY SO WHEN THERE
IS A SHORTAGE OF AMERICAN
WORKERS, EMPLOYERS CAN USE
IMMIGRANT LABOR.
I THINK A BIG PROBLEM IS WE ARE
SEEING A LACK OF ASSIMILATION OF
MANY IMMIGRANTS FROM MEXICO AND
THERE'S NO WAY OF GETTING AROUND
THAT AND I THINK ANY PROGRAM
THAT'S GOING TO PASS CONGRESS
HAS TO HAVE PROTECTIONS FOR U.S.
WORKERS AND SOME COMPONENT IN
THERE TO BRING IMMIGRANTS INTO
THE MAINSTREAM OF AMERICAN
SOCIETY INCLUDING LEARNING
ENGLISH AND BEING ASSIMILATED IN
OUR VALUES

WILLIAM PASCRELL , YOU'VE
INTRODUCED LEGISLATION, IS THAT
A KEY COMPONENT?

I THINK IT'S PART OF THE
ANSWER, PART OF THE RESOLUTION
OF THIS PARTICULAR PROBLEM.
THE LAW MUST HAVE TEETH, THE
LABOR DEPARTMENT MUST HAVE THE
RESOURCES TO MAKE SURE THE
COMPANIES ARE DOING THE RIGHT
THING BY PAYING PREVAILING WAGE,
PARTICULARLY, FOR INSTANCE,
MIKE, IN THE L1 PROGRAM WHERE
CORPORATIONS TAKE FROM ANOTHER
PART OF THE CORPORATION IN ANY
COUNTRY -- ANOTHER COUNTRY,
BRING PEOPLE HERE, OUR PEOPLE
HAVE TO TRAIN THEM AND THEN
THEY'RE LAID OFF.
THIS IS ABSOLUTELY UNACCEPTABLE.
WE KNOW THIS OVER THE LAST 60
MONTHS, THERE'S ONLY BEEN AN
INCREASE IN PRIVATE SECTOR JOBS
OF 40,000 PER MONTH.
WE CANNOT SUSTAIN THIS ECONOMY
BASED ON THAT.
WE NEED TO BE PUTTING ALL OF OUR
EFFORTS INTO TRAINING AMERICANS
FOR THESE JOBS AND THEN WHEN
THOSE FOLKS GET THE DIPLOMAS,
WHEN THOSE FOLKS HAVE THE
SKILLS, WE ARE TREATING THEM
VERY POORLY AND THEY'RE MAKING
THESE FOREIGNERS THAT ARE COMING
INTO THIS COUNTRY, MAKING
BETWEEN $15,000 AND $25,000 LESS
AND GOD KNOWS WHAT WE'RE LOSING
IN BENEFITS.
THERE ARE NOT ACCURATE RECORDS
ON THIS, RANDEL.

THEY'RE PAID LESS THAN THE
U.S. WORKERS, THAT'S A VIOLATION
OF THE LAW.

IT IS A VIOLATION, WHAT'S
DONE ABOUT IT?

I MENTIONED A COMPANY THAT
WAS FINED.

YOU MENTIONED ONE COMPANY.

NO ONE'S GOING TO CONTEST --
WE HAVE A GROSS SHORTAGE OF
SCIENTISTS AND ENGINEERS IN THIS
COUNTRY AND WE FACE A
COMPETITIVE CHALLENGE WITH OTHER
COUNTRIES ACROSS THE
INTERNATIONAL WORLD NOW AND
WE'RE WAY BEHIND CHINA, EVEN
NOW, ON GRADUATIONS OF SCIENCE
AND ENGINEERS AND WE'RE TALKING
ABOUT 65,000 PEOPLE IN A WORK
FORCE OF 140 MILLION.
WE NEED THE BEST AND THE
BRIGHTEST FROM OVERSEAS.
THERE NEEDS TO BE PROTECTIONS
FOR U.S. WORKERS BUT THIS IS AN
IMPORTANT PROGRAM AND CONGRESS
HAS DEBATED IT IN THE PAST.
IT'S ALWAYS REAUTHORIZED IT ON A
BIPARTISAN BASIS AFTER GOOD
DEBATE AND I THINK IT WILL DO IT
AGAIN.

CONGRESSMAN, I ONLY HAVE 30
SECONDS.
REPUBLICANS ARE DIVIDED ON THIS
ISSUE.
WILL WE SEE A BILL THIS YEAR?

ADDRESS THE TOTAL IMMIGRATION
SITUATION.
IT NEEDS TO BE RESOLVED.
WE WOULD HAVE TO HIRE HUNDREDS
OF THOUSANDS OF NEW EMPLOYEES,
THE PUBLIC SECTOR, TO GO AFTER
THOSE PEOPLE THAT ARE HERE
UNDOCUMENTED.
WE NEED TO COME UP WITH A STRONG
PROGRAM.
I THINK WHAT THE BUSH
ADMINISTRATION HAS ADVANCES THE
BEGINNING TO LOOK AT THIS ENTIRE
SITUATION.
WE NEED TO BE REALISTIC ABOUT
WHO'S IN THE COUNTRY.

WE LEAVE IT THERE.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH,
REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAM PASCRELL
AND RANDEL JOHNSON FROM THE U.S.
CHAMBER OF COMMERCE.